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Talking Back to Books
Outgrowing Ourselves
Jerome C. Harste
Vivian Vasquez
Learning to unpack the underlying systems of meaning that are
Operating within childrens books
Materials: Social Issues Childrens Literature
Willy and Hugh
Sister Annes Hands
Into the Forest
Faithful Elephants
Participants: 30 teachers working on their masters degree in Literacy
at Mount Saint Vincent University. 20 with complete data and used
in this analysis.
Time Frame: Monthly meetings from September, 2009 to October, 2010
Data Collection: Hugh and Willy (September 2009)
Sister Annes Hands (May 2010)
Into the Forest (September 2010)
Faithful Elephants (October 2010)
3 Questions
1. What issues or stereotypes do you see being addressed?
2. What do you find problematic?
3. How does this text position you as a reader?
Data Analysis
1. As researchers we went through each book to identify
what systems of meaning (issues, stereotypes, underlying messages)
we saw operating or on offer. [Later, we present these
in terms of their explicitness based on participants ability to
identify them.]
2. We then went through each participants responses
(collected on 4x6 index cards) to see how many
of these systems of meaning were identified by each participant and
if they identified systems of meaning we ourselves had not identified.
We specifically were Interested in whether participants were
growing in their ability to identify messages not directly signed
by words or pictures in each text.
Willy and Hugh  Underlying Messages
Nerds are little.
Bullies are big.
Bullies disrupt belonging which causes marginalization.
Nerds are weak, wimpy.
Big are mean, tough.
Courage is not related to size.
Nerds are smart.
There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher.
Little people need big people to protect them.
Empowering others makes everyone feel better about themselves.
Big is dumb.
Difference is bad.
Big is scary, intimidating. Bullies are boys.
One needs friends to be happy.
Names reflect personalities.
Nerds wear sweater vests and chinos.
Dont judge people by their physical appearance.
Willy and Hugh  Messages
Participants Identified That We Didnt
Jocks are bullies.
The relationship between apes and monkeys parallel
the relationship between bullies and nerds.
Data Coding Examples
Buster Nose went away when Hugh, who is much bigger, asked if there was
a problem. CODED: There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher.
The book teaches you that two different people can get along. CODED: Unlike
characters can have meaningful relationships.
Kid-Protector. CODED: Little people need big people to protect them.
Intellectuals are non-physical. DOUBLE CODED:
Nerds are smart; Nerds are weak, wimpy.
Strong people are less intellectual. CODED: Bullies are dumb.
Willy and Hugh  Underlying Messages
Nerds are little..12
Bullies are big....11
Bullies disrupt belonging which causes marginalization..11
Nerds are weak, wimpy....8
Big are mean, tough....8
Unlikely characters can have meaningful relationships..8
Courage is not related to size....7
Nerds are smart.....6
There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher ...5
Little people need big people to protect them..4
Empowering others makes everyone feel better about themselves..4
Big is dumb.....3
Difference is bad3
Big is scary, intimidating..3
Bullies are boys..2
One needs friends to be happy2
Names reflect personalities2
Nerds wear sweater vests and chinos.1
Dont judge people by their physical appearance..0
Willy and Hugh  Messages
Participants Identified That We Didnt
Jocks are bullies.--------------------------------------------------------------------------1
The relationship between apes and monkeys parallel
the relationship between bullies and nerds.--------------------------------2
TOTAL: 103 (5.15 messages per individual on the average)
Sister Annes Hands  Underlying
Messages
Being a minority member in a dominant culture causes problems--------------------
13
Teachers should be of the same ethnicity as the students they teach----------------12
Powerful institutions, like churches, have a particular social responsibility
to wash their dirty laundry in public rather than sweep it under the rug-------11
Parents have a right to pull their children out of class if they are unhappy
with the quality of the teaching-----------------------------------------------------------10
Nuns are representative of a church that teaches tolerance, equality and
acceptance--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------10
In a democracy all people have a right to belong-------------------------------------------5
Larger social forces influence childhood beliefs and attitudes---------------------------5
Parents should be careful about what they say in front of children--------------------4
Explicit racial slurs are unacceptable-----------------------------------------------------------3
Forgive wrong-doing: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you--------2
The unknown is something to be avoided-----------------------------------------------------2
Sister Annes Hands  Messages
Continued
In a democracy the majority rules even when the decision is wrong----------1
Ignorance of ones history perpetuates old wrongs--------------------------------1
Cities tolerate differences better than small communities------------------------1
It is important to address racism early in life-----------------------------------------1
MESSAGES PARTICIPANTS IDENTIED THAT WE DIDNT
Racism is somehow Very American--------------------------------------------------2
Race (Black) trumps everything, including being a nun----------------------------1
As teachers nuns are strict----------------------------------------------------------------1
TOTAL: 85 (4.25 messages per individual on the average)
Into the Forest  Underlying Messages
Intact families give children security; single-parent families, absent
father families, or broken families are associated with fear,
anxiety, and insecurity---------------------------------------------------------------16
Fairy tales often play with the notion of children left to their own devices
and often have characters that act like wolves--------------------------------10
Adults reinforce fears by not offering explanations---------------------------------10
Forests are dark and scary where bad things happen-------------------------------8
Girls need protection; boys can be left on their own--------------------------------7
Mothers stay at home; fathers dont----------------------------------------------------7
Even children have an obligation to help others in need---------------------------7
Color in pictures signal safety whereas black and white signal scary------------6
Boys ignore rules----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6
Women (girls) are nurturers; men (boys) are not-------------------------------------6
Old women (grandmothers) are both weak and fragile-----------------------------2
Children are lost and rather helpless without an adult around--------------------2
Authors use stormy weather to signal that something is amiss-------------------0
Into the Forest  Messages
Participants Identified That We Didnt
Children in certain cultural groups are more likely to be raised in
absent father families than are children in other cultural groups--------2
Children are vulnerable--------------------------------------------------------------------1
Men (boys) dont cry------------------------------------------------------------------------1
TOTAL: 91 (4.5 messages per individual on the average)
Evening the Odds
Because stories had unequal messages to be uncovered one has to
look at hit rate:
Willy and Hugh 21 messages 103 hits = 4.91 hit rate
Sister Annes Hands 18 messages 85 hits = 4.73 hit rate
Into the Forest 16 messages 91 hits = 5.69 hit rate
Conclusions
As a group participants did get more critical, although minimally and
slowly. Supporting teachers in taking on a critical stance calls for a
long-term investment in time and effort on everyones part.
As a group participants were much better at identifying explicit
messages in text (signed by either words or pictures) than they
were at identifying implicit messages.
.
.
.
Conclusions Continued
After responses had been collected we had whole class discussions of the book.
These discussions were misleading as we felt participants were growing
more than they were. Collectively they were able to identify almost every
implicit and explicit message.
These observations support:
(1) the power of collaboration, as well as
(2) the fact that our (both the participants and the researchers) rhetoric often
gets ahead of our ability to apply what we know.
Conclusions Continued
There is an old Cree saying, To say the name is to begin the story.
Participants initially did a lot of naming  bullying, racism,
abandonment  without fully articulating the system of meaning
they saw operating. Over time and the opportunity to unpack lots
of texts they came to be able to elaborate the systems of meaning
they saw operating.
Initially participants relied on the frameworks they had been taught
to use in comprehending texts rather than to critically deconstruct
the stories we presented. Early responses showed that participants
had learned their district inservice lessons almost too well as
responses were full of text to self, text to text, and text to world
connections. (Example of text to world connection:
As a reader I am to accept her removal from the school based on
her race. Despite the fact that this is not directly mentioned, I feel
it to be true. Especially since the story takes place during the time
of Martin Luther King Jr.  Gina).
.
Conclusions Continued
Initially participants read the What do you find problematic ?
question very personally:
I found the use of metaphors very problematic (Cathy);
I find it problematic that the childs parents presented a
problem to her that she would not have considered (Lori).
It took time for participants to understand the problematic as
messages being explicitly and implicitly endorsed by the text.
Conclusions Continued
No participant was outstanding. Paddy probably identified the
most implicit and explicit messages on the average (6.67) whereas
the class as a group typically each identified 4 or 5.
Nonetheless, participants were insightful:
Willy and Hugh: Willy never got to be strong on his own. He
was strong only in Hughs presence.  Lori
I am interested by the images and animals used
to represent Willy and Hugh.I wonder about the
use of them to represent intellectual ability, race,
and gender. -- Gina
Insightful Comments Continued
Into the Forest: Expecting a wolf, but instead just got a few
irresponsible grown-ups!! -- Michael
Sketchy places always have sketchy people. -- Kristan
What Im made to accept is that when people
dont like something, they just leave, they
dont act. --Lisi
Sister Annes Hands: I felt aligned with the narrator despite the
fact that her values did not agree with me?!
A strange perspective but perhaps it is harder
to be critical when  as a narrative techniqu 
the storyteller is a vulnerable child -- Paddy
Interesting Comments
Sister Annes Hands: The children (or maybe just Anna?) feel
guilty when Sister Anne reacts with silence
to the airplane, but I think her gentleness and
forgiveness is atypical. I think it also suggests that
its okay to treat black people in this manner
because they will accept and forgive. --Catherine
Should kid books be the vehicle for adult lessons? -- Morgan
All too often we tend to forget or lose sight of the need to
do right once a matter is out of sight. In this case Sister Annes
transfer may be a forgotten matter for most and they move on,
while for Sister Anne this issue may continue elsewhere. -- Tony
Culminating Experience
As a culminating experience we read Faithful Elephants to the participants
and asked how they would use this book in their curriculum.
We then gave them an article called History Into Myth by Kawabata & Vandergrift
which argues that Faithful Elephants was written as propaganda to convince Japanese
children to hate Americans. Further, no such incident occurred at the Eno Zoo and
the book, they document, is far from a true story as the cover states.
Following reading the article, we asked participants to revisit how they might
use the book in their curriculum. We were interested to see if after working with
these participants for an entire year, they would elect to censor (or not use) the book.
Happily no one censored the use of the book, though 3 participants said they
would not use it with lower elementary students as they thought that children
at that age were too sensitive and needed to be protected from such a harsh reality.
The question we now have is, If a teacher sees her or his role as protecting the
Innocence of children, can she, in fact, become a critical educator?

More Related Content

NRC Revised 2010

  • 1. Talking Back to Books Outgrowing Ourselves Jerome C. Harste Vivian Vasquez
  • 2. Learning to unpack the underlying systems of meaning that are Operating within childrens books Materials: Social Issues Childrens Literature Willy and Hugh Sister Annes Hands Into the Forest Faithful Elephants Participants: 30 teachers working on their masters degree in Literacy at Mount Saint Vincent University. 20 with complete data and used in this analysis. Time Frame: Monthly meetings from September, 2009 to October, 2010 Data Collection: Hugh and Willy (September 2009) Sister Annes Hands (May 2010) Into the Forest (September 2010) Faithful Elephants (October 2010)
  • 3. 3 Questions 1. What issues or stereotypes do you see being addressed? 2. What do you find problematic? 3. How does this text position you as a reader?
  • 4. Data Analysis 1. As researchers we went through each book to identify what systems of meaning (issues, stereotypes, underlying messages) we saw operating or on offer. [Later, we present these in terms of their explicitness based on participants ability to identify them.] 2. We then went through each participants responses (collected on 4x6 index cards) to see how many of these systems of meaning were identified by each participant and if they identified systems of meaning we ourselves had not identified. We specifically were Interested in whether participants were growing in their ability to identify messages not directly signed by words or pictures in each text.
  • 5. Willy and Hugh Underlying Messages Nerds are little. Bullies are big. Bullies disrupt belonging which causes marginalization. Nerds are weak, wimpy. Big are mean, tough. Courage is not related to size. Nerds are smart. There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher. Little people need big people to protect them. Empowering others makes everyone feel better about themselves. Big is dumb. Difference is bad. Big is scary, intimidating. Bullies are boys. One needs friends to be happy. Names reflect personalities. Nerds wear sweater vests and chinos. Dont judge people by their physical appearance.
  • 6. Willy and Hugh Messages Participants Identified That We Didnt Jocks are bullies. The relationship between apes and monkeys parallel the relationship between bullies and nerds.
  • 7. Data Coding Examples Buster Nose went away when Hugh, who is much bigger, asked if there was a problem. CODED: There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher. The book teaches you that two different people can get along. CODED: Unlike characters can have meaningful relationships. Kid-Protector. CODED: Little people need big people to protect them. Intellectuals are non-physical. DOUBLE CODED: Nerds are smart; Nerds are weak, wimpy. Strong people are less intellectual. CODED: Bullies are dumb.
  • 8. Willy and Hugh Underlying Messages Nerds are little..12 Bullies are big....11 Bullies disrupt belonging which causes marginalization..11 Nerds are weak, wimpy....8 Big are mean, tough....8 Unlikely characters can have meaningful relationships..8 Courage is not related to size....7 Nerds are smart.....6 There is always someone bigger, meaner, tougher ...5 Little people need big people to protect them..4 Empowering others makes everyone feel better about themselves..4 Big is dumb.....3 Difference is bad3 Big is scary, intimidating..3 Bullies are boys..2 One needs friends to be happy2 Names reflect personalities2 Nerds wear sweater vests and chinos.1 Dont judge people by their physical appearance..0
  • 9. Willy and Hugh Messages Participants Identified That We Didnt Jocks are bullies.--------------------------------------------------------------------------1 The relationship between apes and monkeys parallel the relationship between bullies and nerds.--------------------------------2 TOTAL: 103 (5.15 messages per individual on the average)
  • 10. Sister Annes Hands Underlying Messages Being a minority member in a dominant culture causes problems-------------------- 13 Teachers should be of the same ethnicity as the students they teach----------------12 Powerful institutions, like churches, have a particular social responsibility to wash their dirty laundry in public rather than sweep it under the rug-------11 Parents have a right to pull their children out of class if they are unhappy with the quality of the teaching-----------------------------------------------------------10 Nuns are representative of a church that teaches tolerance, equality and acceptance--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------10 In a democracy all people have a right to belong-------------------------------------------5 Larger social forces influence childhood beliefs and attitudes---------------------------5 Parents should be careful about what they say in front of children--------------------4 Explicit racial slurs are unacceptable-----------------------------------------------------------3 Forgive wrong-doing: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you--------2 The unknown is something to be avoided-----------------------------------------------------2
  • 11. Sister Annes Hands Messages Continued In a democracy the majority rules even when the decision is wrong----------1 Ignorance of ones history perpetuates old wrongs--------------------------------1 Cities tolerate differences better than small communities------------------------1 It is important to address racism early in life-----------------------------------------1 MESSAGES PARTICIPANTS IDENTIED THAT WE DIDNT Racism is somehow Very American--------------------------------------------------2 Race (Black) trumps everything, including being a nun----------------------------1 As teachers nuns are strict----------------------------------------------------------------1 TOTAL: 85 (4.25 messages per individual on the average)
  • 12. Into the Forest Underlying Messages Intact families give children security; single-parent families, absent father families, or broken families are associated with fear, anxiety, and insecurity---------------------------------------------------------------16 Fairy tales often play with the notion of children left to their own devices and often have characters that act like wolves--------------------------------10 Adults reinforce fears by not offering explanations---------------------------------10 Forests are dark and scary where bad things happen-------------------------------8 Girls need protection; boys can be left on their own--------------------------------7 Mothers stay at home; fathers dont----------------------------------------------------7 Even children have an obligation to help others in need---------------------------7 Color in pictures signal safety whereas black and white signal scary------------6 Boys ignore rules----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 Women (girls) are nurturers; men (boys) are not-------------------------------------6 Old women (grandmothers) are both weak and fragile-----------------------------2 Children are lost and rather helpless without an adult around--------------------2 Authors use stormy weather to signal that something is amiss-------------------0
  • 13. Into the Forest Messages Participants Identified That We Didnt Children in certain cultural groups are more likely to be raised in absent father families than are children in other cultural groups--------2 Children are vulnerable--------------------------------------------------------------------1 Men (boys) dont cry------------------------------------------------------------------------1 TOTAL: 91 (4.5 messages per individual on the average)
  • 14. Evening the Odds Because stories had unequal messages to be uncovered one has to look at hit rate: Willy and Hugh 21 messages 103 hits = 4.91 hit rate Sister Annes Hands 18 messages 85 hits = 4.73 hit rate Into the Forest 16 messages 91 hits = 5.69 hit rate
  • 15. Conclusions As a group participants did get more critical, although minimally and slowly. Supporting teachers in taking on a critical stance calls for a long-term investment in time and effort on everyones part. As a group participants were much better at identifying explicit messages in text (signed by either words or pictures) than they were at identifying implicit messages. . . .
  • 16. Conclusions Continued After responses had been collected we had whole class discussions of the book. These discussions were misleading as we felt participants were growing more than they were. Collectively they were able to identify almost every implicit and explicit message. These observations support: (1) the power of collaboration, as well as (2) the fact that our (both the participants and the researchers) rhetoric often gets ahead of our ability to apply what we know.
  • 17. Conclusions Continued There is an old Cree saying, To say the name is to begin the story. Participants initially did a lot of naming bullying, racism, abandonment without fully articulating the system of meaning they saw operating. Over time and the opportunity to unpack lots of texts they came to be able to elaborate the systems of meaning they saw operating. Initially participants relied on the frameworks they had been taught to use in comprehending texts rather than to critically deconstruct the stories we presented. Early responses showed that participants had learned their district inservice lessons almost too well as responses were full of text to self, text to text, and text to world connections. (Example of text to world connection: As a reader I am to accept her removal from the school based on her race. Despite the fact that this is not directly mentioned, I feel it to be true. Especially since the story takes place during the time of Martin Luther King Jr. Gina). .
  • 18. Conclusions Continued Initially participants read the What do you find problematic ? question very personally: I found the use of metaphors very problematic (Cathy); I find it problematic that the childs parents presented a problem to her that she would not have considered (Lori). It took time for participants to understand the problematic as messages being explicitly and implicitly endorsed by the text.
  • 19. Conclusions Continued No participant was outstanding. Paddy probably identified the most implicit and explicit messages on the average (6.67) whereas the class as a group typically each identified 4 or 5. Nonetheless, participants were insightful: Willy and Hugh: Willy never got to be strong on his own. He was strong only in Hughs presence. Lori I am interested by the images and animals used to represent Willy and Hugh.I wonder about the use of them to represent intellectual ability, race, and gender. -- Gina
  • 20. Insightful Comments Continued Into the Forest: Expecting a wolf, but instead just got a few irresponsible grown-ups!! -- Michael Sketchy places always have sketchy people. -- Kristan What Im made to accept is that when people dont like something, they just leave, they dont act. --Lisi Sister Annes Hands: I felt aligned with the narrator despite the fact that her values did not agree with me?! A strange perspective but perhaps it is harder to be critical when as a narrative techniqu the storyteller is a vulnerable child -- Paddy
  • 21. Interesting Comments Sister Annes Hands: The children (or maybe just Anna?) feel guilty when Sister Anne reacts with silence to the airplane, but I think her gentleness and forgiveness is atypical. I think it also suggests that its okay to treat black people in this manner because they will accept and forgive. --Catherine Should kid books be the vehicle for adult lessons? -- Morgan All too often we tend to forget or lose sight of the need to do right once a matter is out of sight. In this case Sister Annes transfer may be a forgotten matter for most and they move on, while for Sister Anne this issue may continue elsewhere. -- Tony
  • 22. Culminating Experience As a culminating experience we read Faithful Elephants to the participants and asked how they would use this book in their curriculum. We then gave them an article called History Into Myth by Kawabata & Vandergrift which argues that Faithful Elephants was written as propaganda to convince Japanese children to hate Americans. Further, no such incident occurred at the Eno Zoo and the book, they document, is far from a true story as the cover states. Following reading the article, we asked participants to revisit how they might use the book in their curriculum. We were interested to see if after working with these participants for an entire year, they would elect to censor (or not use) the book. Happily no one censored the use of the book, though 3 participants said they would not use it with lower elementary students as they thought that children at that age were too sensitive and needed to be protected from such a harsh reality. The question we now have is, If a teacher sees her or his role as protecting the Innocence of children, can she, in fact, become a critical educator?