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Between two worlds
Living and working in China and Germany
A summertime chat with Zuhui Mao and Klaus Schmitt
Mrs. Zuhui Mao comes from Shanghai and has
been living in Heidelberg for more than 30
years. She is the executive director of
SinaLingua, a cross-cultural management
company founded in the year 2000. The
company conducts workshops on all relevant
global management cultures and is today
provided with a network of about 80 trainers.
Since 2006, SinaLingua also has its own branch
in Shanghai, China.
Mr. Klaus Schmitt is a trained industrial
management assistant who has also
graduated in sinology and ethnology. Eleven
years ago he went to China to work for the
German Foreign Chamber of Commerce in
Shanghai. For about four years now he has
been training Western and Chinese managers
in China in cross-cultural management, team
building and executive development. As an
organisational coach, today Klaus Schmitt
advises and coaches managers and global
company representatives.
This year, however, the two are travellers between two worlds: both of them
have returned to their home countries for some months to work there and this
way once again experience their own everyday lives. Does this run smoothly, or
do they face certain challenges? SinaLingua spoke to them.

SinaLingua: For quite some time now you have been back to your home countries. How are
you doing?
Zuhui Mao: I��m great, no complaints. Apart from a heat wave in Shanghai with more than
40��C and an extremely high humidity, everything is okay. After all, I love hot weather. And
here in Shanghai we have the advantage of being provided with air condition.
Klaus Schmitt: Meanwhile I?m feeling very well. However, after turbulent Shanghai it took
some time to get used again to this new everyday life in placid Heidelberg. Currently I?m
enjoying the quietness, the tidiness, the orderliness and the fact that life over here is slower
than in Shanghai.
SL: Mrs. Mao, Mr. Schmitt, independently of each other you are currently spending some
months in your home countries, after having been living and working in Germany and
China respectively for many years. This time, what made you decide for longer stays in
your home countries?
ZM: I left China in 1985 to go to Germany, and now I have been living in Heidelberg for more
than 30 years. Accordingly, I had always been dreaming of living in my home country of
China again and of seeing if I?m still capable of doing this after 30 years. When getting older,
you become ever more aware of this. This raises questions: In which ways will I be affected
when being back home again, when looking for my roots? Will I really get along with life over
here, what is conspicuous, what do I like, what not? After all, this was the point which made
me decide to come back to Shanghai.
KS: For me the motto ��back to the roots�� plays a certain role. After meanwhile eleven years
in China, I wanted to experience life in Germany first hand again, including everyday life at
work. Even if I came back to Germany every year, for holidays or business trips, this is not
the same as permanently living here for some months. Furthermore, for me it was important
to experience interaction and business communication in Germany again, as this is a
frequent topic of my cross-cultural trainings and coachings in China. I will then be able to
make use of an updated impression of the current situation for my work in China.
SL: When becoming familiar with your home countries again and starting to establish your
everyday lives at work, were there any remarkable impressions for you? What were your
most striking experiences?
ZM: Over the past 20 years I have been to China at regular intervals, both for business and
private matters. Basically, I had never lost contact to China, even if no stay was longer than
two weeks. However, it is a great difference if you are staying in China for three, four or even
six months. The biggest challenge in the beginning of my return was that in China there is
hardly any separation of work and private lives. Sometimes this was rather tough, also due
to the time difference to Germany; the moment work is over here, work in Germany has just
gathered pace. Insofar I can very well understand what expatrietes in China have to deal
with, hats off! Apart from this, everyday work over here comes along with many obligations
in the evenings. Business contacts are very much maintained, one has meals together, also
on weekends. Over here it is a matter of course that even when being on holidays you are
available for conversations with your business partners. For me this was the most difficult

thing when becoming familiar with China again. To sum it up: Shutting yourself away with
certain anchors, saying that now I?ve arrived, in a way which allows me to have my own
rhythm of life with certain rituals, this requires much self-discipline. Over here this is
completely different from Germany.
KS: For me, many things were striking at the same time. For once, this is not only a clich�� but
reality: the fresh air and the plenty of nature, also in the city centre, as well as the quietness,
often organised by strict regulations in Germany. This made me become much calmer, much
more focused. In the beginning I couldn?t get enough of the green of the trees, and I
encountered intensive smells I had not perceived like this for a long time, e. g. a freshly
mowed lawn or a freshly polished staircase. Then there is an immense and extremely
distinctive bicycle culture over here (bicycle lanes, child trailers, giving way to bicycles,
bicycles in buses and trains and much more). One of the first things I did over here was
buying a used bike! Another great difference I perceive in conversations with Germans is
their particular sense of humour. Often humour in Germany finds expression by irony,
something which is not necessarily the case in China. For example, after having arrived at
Frankfurt Airport, I was asked by the customs officer if I was from Shanghai. I asked him how
he knew and if at that time there had been only one flight arriving. He said that my name
Schmitt had made him think so, as it sounded really Chinese.
SL: Which cultural differences between Germany and China do you perceive particularly in
everyday life?
ZM: On the one hand, over here I still have close contacts to my family and friends,
accordingly personal relations are much more intensive than in Germany. Over here it is a
matter of course that I see my parents at least two times a week and that I call them now
and then. And I am no exception: relations to family and relatives are very close. Vice versa,
this also means that, when being in Germany, I take much care to have my personal
freedom, to just retreat when and how I like; this is difficult over here. Also, over here it
requires much self-discipline to have a break now and then. I had to consequently build in
some rituals, doing yoga at fixed times, having a massage or sitting in a park on my own and
reading. Apart from this, there are so many people over here, often getting to work takes
very much time, everywhere you meet people. In this sense, there is no basic understanding
of moving too close to each other. Basically, this cultural imprint influences the entire
everyday life. Another example is the fact that now, during the summer time, for more than
one and a half month I have been living like on a construction site. I mean the situation here
in my apartment complex, where constantly people are moving in and out, resulting in
refurbishments. When, for example, refurbishments have been completed on the 5th
floor,
and you believe that now you may take a deep breath, the noise starts again on the 13th
floor. This phenomenon is simply accepted in China and nobody complains. Then there is an
extreme difference concerning lifestyle. In Germany I live in Heidelberg, a city whose
number of inhabitants would not even be sufficient for one neighbourhood in Shanghai.
Meanwhile the City of Shanghai itself has become a multi-cultural metropolis; the enormous
offer of cultural and arts events meets the highest modern and international standards. This
is something I enjoy very much.
KS: There are so many differences I take notice of. I just don?t know where to begin. Now, as
summer really takes off, there is the example of the distinctive balcony culture in the city

centre. Even the smallest balconies are used for recreation, for enjoyment and coming
together, and they are nicely made by help of a variety of decorations and plants. In China,
the balcony culture is less distinctive, the people there rather go outside to share their
everyday lives with many other people. Another difference is the service culture. Compared
to China, there is only little staff, which may result in long waits or obvious stress.
Furthermore, often the service staff seems to be outspokenly inflexible when it comes to
individual food preferences (I am a vegetarian!). Another point is the open-mindedness of
the people over here. As in Heidelberg I hardly know anybody and had no circle of friends
and acquaintances. I attended many events on my own (open film events, dances, lectures)
and I believe myself to be rather open-minded and finding it easy to meet other people. But
compared to China, over here I notice how much aloof the people are and how much they
want to be among themselves. In China, on the other hand, many people are very curious,
and often they approach foreigners to greet them and simply start a conversation. As I
perceive it, many Germans are generally less interested in meeting other people.
SL: How do you perceive the younger generations in both countries?
ZM: In China we speak of the different generations of the post-1980ers, post-1990ers and
even of those who were born after the year 2000. Myself, I have little contact to the latter
two groups in my everyday life. However, in the team of my company there are some staff
members belonging to the post-1990 generation. I think that their entire way of being is very
open-minded, very communicative, and after all they are not so much different from the
young generation in the West. Sometimes they are very straightforward, and they are also
capable of accepting open and straightforward criticism, and they indeed reflect on it. When
it comes to those cultural elements as are visible and perceptible, I hardly notice any
differences between the young generations of Germany and China. Just the same, I notice
that the attitude towards work-life balance has much changed among the young generation
in China. They have learned how to work, nevertheless they know how to really enjoy their
leisure time: may it be that they go to concerts in the evenings or go on weekend trips with
friends, meanwhile many have their own cars, they fully enjoy their lives, and they plan their
holidays much earlier than the older generation. Furthermore, quality of life, to which e. g.
the love of nature and healthy food also belong, is a topic which is much more in the fore
among the young generation.
KS: Now, I have not so much contact to young Germans, however I perceive them as being
very different from each other. On the one hand I meet young people who are very smart,
ambitious, considerate, communicative, social, open-minded and showing an international
attitude. They know how to deal with the social media. Many of them think about their lives,
their desires and their goals in life. On the other hand, however, I also see young people in
Germany who, to me, look rather depressed and frustrated, who are hanging around with
their friends on public squares, mostly with a beer can in their hands. I think that, concerning
this aspect, society is very divided. Over here, several criteria such as school education,
parents, and the question of who has supported their education and if they have been
supported at all plays a great role. I do not rule out that in the future the so called social gap
might cause great problems in Germany.

SL: Do you identify different ways of approaching things when it comes to the organisation
of work?
ZM: When it comes to work, organisation in Germany is much more structured. In Germany I
can plan things well one week in advance, and in 70-80% of cases nothing will be changed.
Accordingly, I enter my office in the morning, I basically know what to do and can start to
execute things. Certainly, there are always some more things to do, but basically everything
is much more structured. In China, on the other hand, I can plan just one day in advance �C if
at all. Certainly this is partly due to my role as the executive director. I am primarily
interested in maintaining the relations to our business partners, clients and suppliers. Over
here I have much more appointments with clients than in Germany. And over here I go out
for meals with business partners much more often. Thus, on the whole I may say that,
concerning the organisation of everyday life at work, things are much more spontaneous
over here. This requires a certain degree of readiness and openness to spontaneity and
improvisation.
KS: When it comes to my everyday life at work, for me the strict separation of job and
private life was striking. After their time in the office, most Germans dedicate their lives
exclusively to private matters and hobbies. Furthermore, there is a strict separation between
workmate and friend, in the short run little friendships develop among workmates, and in
most cases one keeps a personal distance. In China, on the other hand, transitions are rather
fluid. Both concerning relations to staff members �C who are soon called ��friends�� in China �C
and the times when people are available, there are hardly any visible limits. Among this
there also counts that many employees over here do not have breaks together or go out for
lunch together, quite different to China, where this collectivity aspect is much emphasized.
Furthermore, over here reliability is a value I encounter constantly. Currently I much enjoy
this strong reliability of most people. Thus, when it comes to decision-making, often a longer
period of preliminary planning is necessary, to be prepared for possible changes. Over here,
much runs according to inflexible structures one does not want to neglect. Processes run
along fixed courses, and what is more, basically one keeps these rules. Concerning
communication, over here it is comparably important to create an atmosphere of reliability.
SL: In your opinion, what are the greatest differences when it comes to the planning and
implementation of projects?
ZM: This may be well illustrated by a German-Chinese project which is currently running over
here. Also in China there is project planning, with a clear structure and deadlines. However,
it changes constantly. For example, if an executive changes, a project may soon come to a
standstill or may be put on hold. Thus, over here executives must innately be open towards
change, to be able to react flexibly and thus to make quick decisions. This comes along with
greater readiness to take risks and more commitment, so that considerations such as ��Are
we going to accept the offer by this new partner, even if no contract has been fixed?��,
��What do I think about the situation?�� or ��May I already start the project while at the same
time intensifying my relations to the partner?�� are daily fare. In Germany, in most cases the
risk would be too high. Thus, over here I see full confirmation of the stereotypes concerning
the two cultures. On the other hand, if a German comes to China and is to a certain degree
ready to take risks, often he/she will see surprising change and positive results if then,

suddenly, the project does run or even follow-up projects become possible. This depends
much on trust in the business partner. I find this kind of flexibility in China very remarkable.
KS: When it comes to project work, in Germany for me reliability is in the fore, i. e. planning
should not be changed much afterwards. Working against this requires long-term planning,
good preparation and fixed standards, to achieve the best possible result. In case of changes,
they are in most cases soon communicated, which in my opinion is a great difference to
China. There, I have often made the experience that due to hierarchy levels, unclear
competences, interwoven relationships were not communicated immediately. If once
something is fixed, in Germany (at least in the field of training) you may assume that the
client will not change much. In China, on the other hand, I must expect that there will be
several changes. This is perfectly normal and okay if I am ready to be flexible and simply
know that I am still moving within the project frame.
SL: Finally, would you tell us about your favourite dishes at the moment?
ZM: As currently it is extremely hot in Shanghai, I love having ��leng mian�� (��, cold
noodles) which are only offered in summer. They are prepared with a variety of different
sauces and garnishes. However, what I would really love to have and miss very much over
here is potato salad with barbecue sausages!
KS: Currently I like everything most which has to do with potatoes, may it be potato soup,
mashed potatoes, boiled potatoes, potatoes in the skin, hash browns and of course also
chips (French fries). For me, this is the German dish as such.
SL: Thank you very much for the interview! We wish both of you a nice stay in your
respective home country.

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