際際滷

際際滷Share a Scribd company logo
Mrs. MJ
Mr. V
Nikola Atanackovic
Timothy Li
Adarsh Mody
Bryan Sun
Danny Xia(Serbian Flag)
Flag of Serbia
 Three horizontal stripes represent Pan-Slavic colors
 symbolizes freedom and revolutionary ideas
 Crest consists of several symbols adopted from
previous rulers
 Crest originally used by Obrenovic dynasty (1882)
 Coat of arms represents Serbian State
(Serbian Flag)
Location
 Located in the
Balkans
 Otherwise known as
southeast Europe
 Surrounded by
Romania, Hungary,
Bulgaria
 Used to be called
Yugoslavia and later
Serbia-Montenegro
 Capital: Belgrade
(Europe: Serbia)
National Park Tara
(Marshal)
The Building of the National
Assembly of Serbia
(Marshal)
Belgrade Fortress
(Marshal)
Gamzigrad - Romuliana
(Marshal)
War in Serbia
 North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) bombed Serbia
in hopes of ending Balkan War
 Only made conditions worse
 Resulted in a chain of ongoing issues
 Environment
 Poverty/Diseases
 Debt
 Economic Instability
(Steven)
War in Serbia
 Amidst civil war between
1991-1999
 Balkan countries attempted
to obtain independence
from Yugoslavia (former
Serbia) in violent manner
 Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, and
Kosovo break from Yugoslavia
(Google Maps)
Environmental Issues
 Bombing caused:
 200% increase in
malignant diseases
 Pollutants increased in
land, air, and water
 Nuclear winter
 Radiation still present
 Tracked with number of
cancer cases filed
(Serbia marks 14th)
Environmental Issues
 Inadequate waste
management
 3,500 illegal dumping
sites
 Depleted uranium at tip
of bomb
 Mainly at Ground Zero
(Pristina)
 Uranium claims lives
even up to today
(Serbia marks bombing)
Poverty and Disease
 Heart disease ranked 2nd
in world and 3rd in Serbia
 Lung cancer ranked 2nd
in world and 4th in Serbia
 Mainly caused by
smoking
(Calma)
Poverty and Disease
 Bombing contributed to
poverty
 ~ 700,000 people in
poverty
 ~ 730,000 unemployed
 ~ 50,000 frequent soup
kitcheners
 ~ 70,000 on welfare
 Poverty leads to disease
(Modernity next to fraternity)
Debt
 Serbia almost bankrupt, nearly reaching public GDP
limit of 45%
 Almost 24% of population unemployed, millions behind
in payment
(Stefanovi)
Debt
 Frivolous spending by
the Serbian government
 Borrowing money to
pay back debt
(S叩ndor)
How Did the Economy Fall?
 Factors leading to the downfall of an economy:
 War: forced Serbia to invest million of dollars into army to
protect Serbia
 Environmental Issues: forces the country to spend money to
research how to create a better environment
 Debt: doesnt allow country to spend money on improving
country, has to focus on paying off debt
 Poverty and Disease: country has to spend money to treat
diseases
(Lee)
Effects of a Bad Economy
Instability and tensions between the government and its
people are caused by:
 Inflation: prices of everyday goods skyrocket
 Fewer foreign investors in country, minimizes cash
flow in and out of country
 Increased criminal activities
(Serbia)
Conclusion
Why Isnt This Problem
Solved?
 Debt is large so not easy to
get out of
 Bad management of
economy by government
 Unemployment rates
contribute to stagnant
economy
What Are Current
Solutions?
 World Bank lent 500
million dollars
 Signed free trade
agreement with EU, Russia
and Turkey
 European Bank for
Reconstruction and
Development has rebuilt
6.6 million dollars worth of
industrial buildings
The Best Solution
 Lending money by far best solution
 Solves multiple problems at once
 Unemployment
 Debt
 Other solutions just solve one of the many problems
(Serbia)
(Europe:
Serbia)
Works Cited
 Ambrosio, Patrick. UPA Proposal Cuts Water Infrastructure Funds, Increases Air, Water Pollution Grants. BNA 14 Feb. 2012:
All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013 <http://www.bna.com/epa-proposal-cuts-n12884907868/>.
 Barlovac, Bojana. Serbia's 'Social Map' Reveals Extent of Poverty. Balkan Transitional Justice. 22 Apr. 11. Balkan Insight. Web. 4
Feb 2013.<http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/ten-per-cent-of-serbians-live-in-poverty>.
 Calma, Francis. "4th Stage Of Lung Cancer." PRLOG (2011): n. pag. PRLog. Web. 22 Apr. 2013. <http://www.prlog.org/11334155-
4th-stage-of-lung-cancer.html>.
 Dobbs, Michael. "NATO's Latest Target: Yugoslavia's Economy." Washington Post. The Washington Post Company, 25 Apr.
1999. Web. 5 Apr. 2013. <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/ledeall042599. htm>.
 "Europe: Serbia." The World Factbook. CIA, 19 Apr. 2013. Web. 23 Apr. 2013. <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-
factbook/geos/ri.html>.
 Filipovic, Gordana. "IMF Sees Serbian 2012 GDP Up 0.5%, Jobless Rate a Concern. Bloomberg. Bloomberg, 10 Feb. 2012. Web. 16
Jan. 2013. <http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-10/imf-sees-serbian-2012-gdp-up-0-5-jobless-rate-a-concern-1-
.html>.
 Google Maps. Google, n.d. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?gmp=home>.
 "Health Profile: Serbia and Montenegro." World Health Rankings. World Life Expectancy, 2010. Web. 22 Apr. 2013.
<http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/serbia-and-monten>.
Works Cited
 Jovanovic, Ivana. "Serbia Public Debt Poses Trouble." SETimes. SETimes, 1 May 2012. Web. 7 Feb. 2013.<http://setimes.com/cocoon/
setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2012/01/05/feature-03>.
 King, David. Serbia and Montenegro. New York: Marshall Cavendish, 2004. 144. Print.
 Kravolec, Bill. Serbia: Smoking Capital of the World. Bills Blog. 3 Dec. 2012. 29 Apr. 2013. <http://billkralovec.com/2012/12/03/serbia-smoking-
capital-of-the-world/>.
 Lee, Christopher. "Recent Reports Suggest Signs Of Economic Recovery." Recent Reports Suggest Signs Of Economic Recovery. Lee Law
Firm, 3 Feb. 2012. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <http://leebankruptcy.com/bankruptcy_blog/economy/recent-signs-of-economic-recovery/>.
 Marshal, Danny. "Top 10 Tourist Attractions in Serbia." Top 10 Tourist Attractions in Serbia. Vacation Homes, 15 Dec. 2011. Web. 24 Apr. 2013.
<http://www.vacationhomes.net/ blog/2011/12/15/top-10-tourist-attractions-in-serbia/>.
 Milovanovic, Bojana. "Many Serbs below Poverty Line." SETimes. Southeast European Times, n.d. Web. 21 Apr. 2013.
<http://setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/ setimes/features/2011/06/20/feature-04>.
 Modernity next to fraternity. Under the Toadstool. 27 Feb. 2012. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. http://underthetoadstool.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/
 Nathanson, Jerry A. Land Pollution. Encyclopedia Britannic. 2013. Encyclopedia Britannica Online. 1 Apr. 2013. <http://www.britannica.
com/EBchecked/topic/329175/land-pollution>.
 NATO Member Countries. North Atlantic Treaty Organization, 9 Apr. 2013. Web. 10 Apr. 2013. <http://www.nato.int/cps/
en/natolive/nato_countries.htm>.
 S叩ndor, Pincz辿s. "National Bank of Serbia Nemzeti Bank Szerbia." Panoramio. Panoramio, 21 Nov. 2010. Web. 22 Apr. 2013.
<http://www.panoramio.com/photo/43971162>.
 Serbia." EBRD. European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, n.d. Web. 6 Feb. 2013.<http://www.ebrd.com/pages/country/serbia.shtml>.
Works Cited
 Serbia. Europe and Central Asia Region Sustainable Development Department. The World Bank, Nov. 2007. Web. 14
Jan. 2013. <http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/serbia/ overview>.
 "Serbia." Serbia. The World Bank Group, n.d. Web. 06 Feb. 2013. <http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/serbia>.
 "Serbia Economy Profile 2012." Serbia Economy Profile 2012. CIA World Factbook, 19 July 2012. Web. 15 Jan 2013.
<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ri.html>.
 Serbia Environmental and Climate Impact Analysis. School for Economics and Commercial Law. Goteborg University, 29
Feb. 2008. Web. 14 Jan. 2013.<http://www.sida.se/Global/Countries%20and%20regions/
Europe%20incl.%20Central%20Asia/Serbia/Environmental%20policy%20brief%20Serbia.pdf>.
 "Serbia, Flag of." Encyclopedia Britannica Online. Encyclopedia Britannica, n.d. Web. 24 Apr. 2013.
<http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1355501/Serbia-flag-of>.
 "Serbia-Kosovo: The Economic Situation." Serbia-Kosovo: The Economical Situation. N.p., n.d. Web. 06 Feb. 2013.
<http://www.rochester.edu/College/REL/faculty/homerin/REL247/Class/serbia/noframes/economy.html>.
 Serbia marks 14th anniversary of NATO bombing. B92 24 Mar. 2013: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013. <http://www.b92.net/
eng/news/societyarticle.php?yyyy=2013&mm=03&dd=24&nav_id=85330>.
 Serbian Flag Desktop Wallpapers and Stock Photos. Digital image. Bighdwallpapers. N.p., n.d. Web. 23 Apr. 2013.
<http://bighdwallpapers.com/view-serbia-flag-1920x1080.html>.
Works Cited
 Stefanovi, Milan. "Policy Cafe Serbia." Policy Cafe Serbia. Policy Cafe Serbia, 2 July 2012. Web. 23 Apr. 2013.<http://www.policycafe.rs/english/b-
pn-the-draft-law-limiting-payment-deadlines_en.php>.
 Steven. "On the NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia." Libcom.org. N.p., 31 Oct. 2009. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <http://libcom.org/history/nato-bombing-
yugoslavia-noam-chomsky>.
 Stevens, Philip. Diseases of poverty and the 10/90 gap. London: International Policy Network,2004. Google Search. Web. 28 Jan 2013.
<http://www.who.int/intellectualproperty/submissions/InternationalPolicyNetwork.pdf>.
 Teaching Green, Beyond Recycling. The New York Times 10 Jan 2010: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013. <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/
nyregion/11green.html?pagewanted=1&_r= 0>.
 Timeline: Break-up of Yugoslavia. BBC News. British Broadcasting Corporation News, 22 May 2006. Web. 5 Feb. 2013.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4997380.stm>.
 UN Security Council. Security Council Rejects Demand for Cessation of Use of Force Against Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. N.p, 26 Mar.
1999. Web. 3 Apr 2013. <http://www.un. org/News/Press/docs/1999/19990326.sc6659.html>.
 Vujadinovic, Ljubica. Depleted Uranium Radiation resulting from NATO Bombings in Serbia: High Incidence of Cancer. Global Research.
23 Mar. 2010: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013 <http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-radiation-resulting-from-nato-bombings-
in-serbia-high-incidence-of-cancer/18432>.
 Waste (Serbia). Serbia. European Environment Agency, 26 Nov. 2010. Web. 13 Jan. 2013. <http://www.eea.europa.eu/soer/countries/
rs/soertopic_view?topic=waste>.
 World: Europe Kosovo War Cost 贈30bn. BBC News. British Broadcasting Corporation News, 15 Oct. 1999. Web. 4 Feb. 2013.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/476134.stm>.
Thank You For Your Attention.
Thank you Mrs. MJ and Mr. V for answering
all our questions and putting up with us

More Related Content

Serbia (1)

  • 1. Mrs. MJ Mr. V Nikola Atanackovic Timothy Li Adarsh Mody Bryan Sun Danny Xia(Serbian Flag)
  • 2. Flag of Serbia Three horizontal stripes represent Pan-Slavic colors symbolizes freedom and revolutionary ideas Crest consists of several symbols adopted from previous rulers Crest originally used by Obrenovic dynasty (1882) Coat of arms represents Serbian State (Serbian Flag)
  • 3. Location Located in the Balkans Otherwise known as southeast Europe Surrounded by Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria Used to be called Yugoslavia and later Serbia-Montenegro Capital: Belgrade (Europe: Serbia)
  • 5. The Building of the National Assembly of Serbia (Marshal)
  • 8. War in Serbia North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) bombed Serbia in hopes of ending Balkan War Only made conditions worse Resulted in a chain of ongoing issues Environment Poverty/Diseases Debt Economic Instability (Steven)
  • 9. War in Serbia Amidst civil war between 1991-1999 Balkan countries attempted to obtain independence from Yugoslavia (former Serbia) in violent manner Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, and Kosovo break from Yugoslavia (Google Maps)
  • 10. Environmental Issues Bombing caused: 200% increase in malignant diseases Pollutants increased in land, air, and water Nuclear winter Radiation still present Tracked with number of cancer cases filed (Serbia marks 14th)
  • 11. Environmental Issues Inadequate waste management 3,500 illegal dumping sites Depleted uranium at tip of bomb Mainly at Ground Zero (Pristina) Uranium claims lives even up to today (Serbia marks bombing)
  • 12. Poverty and Disease Heart disease ranked 2nd in world and 3rd in Serbia Lung cancer ranked 2nd in world and 4th in Serbia Mainly caused by smoking (Calma)
  • 13. Poverty and Disease Bombing contributed to poverty ~ 700,000 people in poverty ~ 730,000 unemployed ~ 50,000 frequent soup kitcheners ~ 70,000 on welfare Poverty leads to disease (Modernity next to fraternity)
  • 14. Debt Serbia almost bankrupt, nearly reaching public GDP limit of 45% Almost 24% of population unemployed, millions behind in payment (Stefanovi)
  • 15. Debt Frivolous spending by the Serbian government Borrowing money to pay back debt (S叩ndor)
  • 16. How Did the Economy Fall? Factors leading to the downfall of an economy: War: forced Serbia to invest million of dollars into army to protect Serbia Environmental Issues: forces the country to spend money to research how to create a better environment Debt: doesnt allow country to spend money on improving country, has to focus on paying off debt Poverty and Disease: country has to spend money to treat diseases (Lee)
  • 17. Effects of a Bad Economy Instability and tensions between the government and its people are caused by: Inflation: prices of everyday goods skyrocket Fewer foreign investors in country, minimizes cash flow in and out of country Increased criminal activities (Serbia)
  • 18. Conclusion Why Isnt This Problem Solved? Debt is large so not easy to get out of Bad management of economy by government Unemployment rates contribute to stagnant economy What Are Current Solutions? World Bank lent 500 million dollars Signed free trade agreement with EU, Russia and Turkey European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has rebuilt 6.6 million dollars worth of industrial buildings
  • 19. The Best Solution Lending money by far best solution Solves multiple problems at once Unemployment Debt Other solutions just solve one of the many problems (Serbia) (Europe: Serbia)
  • 20. Works Cited Ambrosio, Patrick. UPA Proposal Cuts Water Infrastructure Funds, Increases Air, Water Pollution Grants. BNA 14 Feb. 2012: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013 <http://www.bna.com/epa-proposal-cuts-n12884907868/>. Barlovac, Bojana. Serbia's 'Social Map' Reveals Extent of Poverty. Balkan Transitional Justice. 22 Apr. 11. Balkan Insight. Web. 4 Feb 2013.<http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/ten-per-cent-of-serbians-live-in-poverty>. Calma, Francis. "4th Stage Of Lung Cancer." PRLOG (2011): n. pag. PRLog. Web. 22 Apr. 2013. <http://www.prlog.org/11334155- 4th-stage-of-lung-cancer.html>. Dobbs, Michael. "NATO's Latest Target: Yugoslavia's Economy." Washington Post. The Washington Post Company, 25 Apr. 1999. Web. 5 Apr. 2013. <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/ledeall042599. htm>. "Europe: Serbia." The World Factbook. CIA, 19 Apr. 2013. Web. 23 Apr. 2013. <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world- factbook/geos/ri.html>. Filipovic, Gordana. "IMF Sees Serbian 2012 GDP Up 0.5%, Jobless Rate a Concern. Bloomberg. Bloomberg, 10 Feb. 2012. Web. 16 Jan. 2013. <http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-10/imf-sees-serbian-2012-gdp-up-0-5-jobless-rate-a-concern-1- .html>. Google Maps. Google, n.d. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?gmp=home>. "Health Profile: Serbia and Montenegro." World Health Rankings. World Life Expectancy, 2010. Web. 22 Apr. 2013. <http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/serbia-and-monten>.
  • 21. Works Cited Jovanovic, Ivana. "Serbia Public Debt Poses Trouble." SETimes. SETimes, 1 May 2012. Web. 7 Feb. 2013.<http://setimes.com/cocoon/ setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2012/01/05/feature-03>. King, David. Serbia and Montenegro. New York: Marshall Cavendish, 2004. 144. Print. Kravolec, Bill. Serbia: Smoking Capital of the World. Bills Blog. 3 Dec. 2012. 29 Apr. 2013. <http://billkralovec.com/2012/12/03/serbia-smoking- capital-of-the-world/>. Lee, Christopher. "Recent Reports Suggest Signs Of Economic Recovery." Recent Reports Suggest Signs Of Economic Recovery. Lee Law Firm, 3 Feb. 2012. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <http://leebankruptcy.com/bankruptcy_blog/economy/recent-signs-of-economic-recovery/>. Marshal, Danny. "Top 10 Tourist Attractions in Serbia." Top 10 Tourist Attractions in Serbia. Vacation Homes, 15 Dec. 2011. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <http://www.vacationhomes.net/ blog/2011/12/15/top-10-tourist-attractions-in-serbia/>. Milovanovic, Bojana. "Many Serbs below Poverty Line." SETimes. Southeast European Times, n.d. Web. 21 Apr. 2013. <http://setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/ setimes/features/2011/06/20/feature-04>. Modernity next to fraternity. Under the Toadstool. 27 Feb. 2012. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. http://underthetoadstool.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/ Nathanson, Jerry A. Land Pollution. Encyclopedia Britannic. 2013. Encyclopedia Britannica Online. 1 Apr. 2013. <http://www.britannica. com/EBchecked/topic/329175/land-pollution>. NATO Member Countries. North Atlantic Treaty Organization, 9 Apr. 2013. Web. 10 Apr. 2013. <http://www.nato.int/cps/ en/natolive/nato_countries.htm>. S叩ndor, Pincz辿s. "National Bank of Serbia Nemzeti Bank Szerbia." Panoramio. Panoramio, 21 Nov. 2010. Web. 22 Apr. 2013. <http://www.panoramio.com/photo/43971162>. Serbia." EBRD. European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, n.d. Web. 6 Feb. 2013.<http://www.ebrd.com/pages/country/serbia.shtml>.
  • 22. Works Cited Serbia. Europe and Central Asia Region Sustainable Development Department. The World Bank, Nov. 2007. Web. 14 Jan. 2013. <http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/serbia/ overview>. "Serbia." Serbia. The World Bank Group, n.d. Web. 06 Feb. 2013. <http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/serbia>. "Serbia Economy Profile 2012." Serbia Economy Profile 2012. CIA World Factbook, 19 July 2012. Web. 15 Jan 2013. <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ri.html>. Serbia Environmental and Climate Impact Analysis. School for Economics and Commercial Law. Goteborg University, 29 Feb. 2008. Web. 14 Jan. 2013.<http://www.sida.se/Global/Countries%20and%20regions/ Europe%20incl.%20Central%20Asia/Serbia/Environmental%20policy%20brief%20Serbia.pdf>. "Serbia, Flag of." Encyclopedia Britannica Online. Encyclopedia Britannica, n.d. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1355501/Serbia-flag-of>. "Serbia-Kosovo: The Economic Situation." Serbia-Kosovo: The Economical Situation. N.p., n.d. Web. 06 Feb. 2013. <http://www.rochester.edu/College/REL/faculty/homerin/REL247/Class/serbia/noframes/economy.html>. Serbia marks 14th anniversary of NATO bombing. B92 24 Mar. 2013: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013. <http://www.b92.net/ eng/news/societyarticle.php?yyyy=2013&mm=03&dd=24&nav_id=85330>. Serbian Flag Desktop Wallpapers and Stock Photos. Digital image. Bighdwallpapers. N.p., n.d. Web. 23 Apr. 2013. <http://bighdwallpapers.com/view-serbia-flag-1920x1080.html>.
  • 23. Works Cited Stefanovi, Milan. "Policy Cafe Serbia." Policy Cafe Serbia. Policy Cafe Serbia, 2 July 2012. Web. 23 Apr. 2013.<http://www.policycafe.rs/english/b- pn-the-draft-law-limiting-payment-deadlines_en.php>. Steven. "On the NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia." Libcom.org. N.p., 31 Oct. 2009. Web. 24 Apr. 2013. <http://libcom.org/history/nato-bombing- yugoslavia-noam-chomsky>. Stevens, Philip. Diseases of poverty and the 10/90 gap. London: International Policy Network,2004. Google Search. Web. 28 Jan 2013. <http://www.who.int/intellectualproperty/submissions/InternationalPolicyNetwork.pdf>. Teaching Green, Beyond Recycling. The New York Times 10 Jan 2010: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013. <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/ nyregion/11green.html?pagewanted=1&_r= 0>. Timeline: Break-up of Yugoslavia. BBC News. British Broadcasting Corporation News, 22 May 2006. Web. 5 Feb. 2013. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4997380.stm>. UN Security Council. Security Council Rejects Demand for Cessation of Use of Force Against Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. N.p, 26 Mar. 1999. Web. 3 Apr 2013. <http://www.un. org/News/Press/docs/1999/19990326.sc6659.html>. Vujadinovic, Ljubica. Depleted Uranium Radiation resulting from NATO Bombings in Serbia: High Incidence of Cancer. Global Research. 23 Mar. 2010: All. Web. 2 Apr. 2013 <http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-radiation-resulting-from-nato-bombings- in-serbia-high-incidence-of-cancer/18432>. Waste (Serbia). Serbia. European Environment Agency, 26 Nov. 2010. Web. 13 Jan. 2013. <http://www.eea.europa.eu/soer/countries/ rs/soertopic_view?topic=waste>. World: Europe Kosovo War Cost 贈30bn. BBC News. British Broadcasting Corporation News, 15 Oct. 1999. Web. 4 Feb. 2013. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/476134.stm>.
  • 24. Thank You For Your Attention. Thank you Mrs. MJ and Mr. V for answering all our questions and putting up with us